Curse

BrettM · Feb 24, 2009, 02:56 PM // 14:56

Amen, Brother Igor.

The main problem with AI and changed skills is not with the skills but with the builds. If a build is created around a particular skill and depends on synergies with that skill, then obviously the AI will be less effective using that build after a skill change. That's not the fault of the AI. A player can't use a build that's broken by a skill change either.

Lyynyyrd · Feb 24, 2009, 03:02 PM // 15:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by Super Igor

[ray of judgement] says otherwise. :s

A nuke got changed to... a nuke! Oh no, the horror!

moriz · Feb 24, 2009, 04:04 PM // 16:04

-AI cannot use life sheath correctly. they'll still try to preprot with it, and never use it to remove conditions
-AI cannot use healing burst properly. they'll still think it's a touch range heal and won't heal anything except themselves. just go play some AB and you'll know what i mean.
-AI STILL cannot use black lotus strike. they'll constantly try to follow it up with a dual.
-AI does not use primal rage at all.
-AI still tries to gain energy with melandru's shot. that is, they'll use it when they are low on energy. they won't ever get the conditions unless it's purely by accident.
-AI cannot use incendiary arrows properly. they still think it's a preparation.

the list goes on and on. even ray of judgment does not function 100% on AI.

Daesu · Feb 24, 2009, 08:39 PM // 20:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by Super Igor

But question is why? Necs can have better energy management without all the fuss and if you are good enough at microing to make sure that ER is covered and fueled all the time Monk heroes are much better for you because you can as well make sur they never run out of energy in the first place.

Necs energy management are dependent on SR from minions or Sols. Not all places in PvE have lots of exploitable corpses even though most places do. Also ER Ele has great health renewal besides energy renewal. That is how certain human ER Eles can just spam infuse health, which grants a higher heal than even WoH, for free. But I still dont trust the AI to work that trick out.

You dont need to micro as much if you synergize ER with orders. With orders spamming, chances are high that the last enchantment on the ER ele is an order enchantment so that would be the first to be stripped for a normal (i.e. not deep) enchant removal, rather than ER itself. There is still a small risk of being stripped but I think that risk is generally worth it. ER eles also become more efficient when they wear more enchantments.

Super Igor · Feb 24, 2009, 11:36 PM // 23:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by Daesu

Necs energy management are dependent on SR from minions or Sols. Not all places in PvE have lots of exploitable corpses even though most places do. Also ER Ele has great health renewal besides energy renewal. That is how certain human ER Eles can just spam infuse health, which grants a higher heal than even WoH, for free. But I still dont trust the AI to work that trick out.

You dont need to micro as much if you synergize ER with orders. With orders spamming, chances are high that the last enchantment on the ER ele is an order enchantment so that would be the first to be stripped for a normal (i.e. not deep) enchant removal, rather than ER itself. There is still a small risk of being stripped but I think that risk is generally worth it. ER eles also become more efficient when they wear more enchantments.

shh, what about kills? xD

shaygo · Feb 25, 2009, 04:56 PM // 16:56

... back to the OP ...

It depends on what character you have and which area you're doing at the moment.
There are many good hero builds, some of them actually synergize with each other. for example, a SF ele with a "they're on fire" paragon. I usually take those two and a minion bomber ( you can't run with no necros at all, can you ?).
I usually take [steam] with a few points in water magic, and [epidemic] on my SF ele's bar, to make him nuke AND blind everything. there are some spear attacks which I can't recall their names right now that benefit from your foe suffering from a condition - use them on your paragon's bar.
In most places I leave the healling and protting to the henchmen. I don't know if that's the best solution but at least I don't have to think about their energy management ( cause I can't do anything about it anyway ).

distilledwill · Mar 02, 2009, 08:25 PM // 20:25

Seems like this thread has sparked quite a bit of debate. Skimming around this, I'm just going to post the heroes I've been using with my Rit. I'll post my rit build too as I tailored the heroes to meet her needs:

[build name="Player" build prof=Rt channel=12+1+1 resto=12+1][Offering of Spirit][Splinter Weapon][Ancestors' Rage][Soothing Memories][Weapon of Warding][Protective Was kaolai][Recuperation][Flesh of my Flesh][/build]

[build name="ER Prot/Smite Infuser" build prof=E/Mo Energy=12+1+2 Prot=6 smit=10 heal=6][Infuse][Draw Conditions][Smite Hex][Protective Spirit][Zealot's Fire][Aura of Restoration][Ether Renewal][Strength of Honor][/build]

Make sure you give this guy a +20% enchant weapon. Great healer, buffs your sin hero whilst throwing prot spirit around with no energy management problems. He also deals with conditions in a timely fashion as he only really has 4 jobs, hex removal, infuse, prot spirit and drawing.

[Build name="Jagged MM/Curse" build prof=N soulreaping=9+1 curses=9+1 deathmagic=12+1+1][Jagged Bones][Animate Bone Horror][Animate Bone Fiend][Death Nova][Blood of the Master][Mark of Pain][Rip Enchantment][Signet of Lost Souls][/build]

Again, a +20% enchant weapon is recommended but not essential. He'll throw out a nice minion wall (which refreshes with JB) whilst still keeping DPS stupidly high with fiends/MoP. Decided to go with only a minor rune on his head to keep his health high, its only one fewer minion anyway!

[build name="Crit Scythe" build prof=A/D criticalstrikes=12+1+1 Scythe=12 deadlyarts=3 PVE][wounding Strike][Mystic Sweep][Chilling Victory][Malicious Strike][Disrupting Dagger][Way of the Master][Critical Eye][Resurrection Signet][/build]

This lady is the real damage dealer, stick SoH on her (from the ER hero) and then watch as she tears through eeeveryone. D-Dagger is just a utility slot that is nicely filled with a ranged interupt - swap this out for dash when in lower-end PvE areas and enemies are dying before she reaches them.

I know the follies of using melee heroes, poor pathfinding and target switching AI etc, but I fancied something different and the AoE scythe attacks really make the best use of Splinter Weapon and MoP.

MasterSasori · Mar 02, 2009, 09:54 PM // 21:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by Super Igor

[ray of judgement] says otherwise. :s

I bet if it weren't for the RoJ bug, those idiot heroes wouldn't know...

Anyway, I heard Earthshaker War was pretty good. Haven't tested it, so I'll leave it to you guys to find out.

It looks good.

Snow Bunny · Mar 02, 2009, 10:03 PM // 22:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by distilledwill

Seems like this thread has sparked quite a bit of debate. Skimming around this, I'm just going to post the heroes I've been using with my Rit. I'll post my rit build too as I tailored the heroes to meet her needs:

[build name="Player" build prof=Rt channel=12+1+1 resto=12+1][Offering of Spirit][Splinter Weapon][Ancestors' Rage][Soothing Memories][Weapon of Warding][Protective Was kaolai][Recuperation][Flesh of my Flesh][/build]

[build name="ER Prot/Smite Infuser" build prof=E/Mo Energy=12+1+2 Prot=6 smit=10 heal=6][Infuse][Draw Conditions][Smite Hex][Protective Spirit][Zealot's Fire][Aura of Restoration][Ether Renewal][Strength of Honor][/build]

Make sure you give this guy a +20% enchant weapon. Great healer, buffs your sin hero whilst throwing prot spirit around with no energy management problems. He also deals with conditions in a timely fashion as he only really has 4 jobs, hex removal, infuse, prot spirit and drawing.

[Build name="Jagged MM/Curse" build prof=N soulreaping=9+1 curses=9+1 deathmagic=12+1+1][Jagged Bones][Animate Bone Horror][Animate Bone Fiend][Death Nova][Blood of the Master][Mark of Pain][Rip Enchantment][Signet of Lost Souls][/build]

Again, a +20% enchant weapon is recommended but not essential. He'll throw out a nice minion wall (which refreshes with JB) whilst still keeping DPS stupidly high with fiends/MoP. Decided to go with only a minor rune on his head to keep his health high, its only one fewer minion anyway!

[build name="Crit Scythe" build prof=A/D criticalstrikes=12+1+1 Scythe=12 deadlyarts=3 PVE][wounding Strike][Mystic Sweep][Chilling Victory][Malicious Strike][Disrupting Dagger][Way of the Master][Critical Eye][Resurrection Signet][/build]

This lady is the real damage dealer, stick SoH on her (from the ER hero) and then watch as she tears through eeeveryone. D-Dagger is just a utility slot that is nicely filled with a ranged interupt - swap this out for dash when in lower-end PvE areas and enemies are dying before she reaches them.

I know the follies of using melee heroes, poor pathfinding and target switching AI etc, but I fancied something different and the AoE scythe attacks really make the best use of Splinter Weapon and MoP.

Why would you play the bitch role and let a hero frontline?

distilledwill · Mar 02, 2009, 10:39 PM // 22:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by Snow Bunny

Why would you play the bitch role and let a hero frontline?

Cus I'm not entirely convinced that sticking my survivor rit up front with a scythe is the best way to get legendary.

Plus I don't always feel like blowing crap up all the time.

infamous16 · Mar 02, 2009, 10:57 PM // 22:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by Snow Bunny

Why would you play the bitch role and let a hero frontline?

Splinter and AR is all you need...

Super Igor · Mar 03, 2009, 12:50 AM // 00:50

doesnt make any sense, melee heroes/henchies are terrible.

Also, sole reason RoJ is used and loved in PvE is because things dont scatter from it aror ignoring bit is just icing on a cake.

moriz · Mar 03, 2009, 01:01 AM // 01:01

too bad heroes can't use arcane echo+RoJ. my awesome me/mo nuker doesn't work nearly as well as i thought it would

Anwyn · Mar 03, 2009, 06:13 AM // 06:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by distilledwill

Cus I'm not entirely convinced that sticking my survivor rit up front with a scythe is the best way to get legendary.

Plus I don't always feel like blowing crap up all the time.

QFT!

Besides, You still see the big pretty numbers when you cast splinter and AR, it's fun to play a support Rt... Plus you can have 14 Channeling Splinters if the player plays the role!

MagmaRed · Mar 03, 2009, 12:05 PM // 12:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by RavenHQ

I've recently played Sabway/Discordway so much I'm sick of having three Necros... so I tried the 3x RoJ build+ MM... but I think I'm actually sick of running 3x of the similar buillds so I'm trying to figure out how to make a decent Hero team by not using all the same profession...

Early on when NF came out, I would run hero/hench the old fashioned way, as if they were all hench- picking which professions/skills I needed for the moment. After awhile, I settled on to 3x SF E/Me/(Me/E) which I took almost everywhere. Then the Sabway and now RoJ.

In Sabway theres: The Player, MM hero, Rt Healer hero and (Curse Nuke SS hero)

Has anyone figured out decent builds that work using either Ritualtist or Monk as the Healer, Ele or Mes as the Nuke, and Ritualist or Necro as MM? And under the condition that none of the three Heroes have the same Primary?

I have done this for a long time, and use the same 3 heroes on all of my characters for 'general NM PvE'. 2 I always use, the third I will swap based on need/area.

Dunkoro as a healer (if in an area with 4 or 6 players on the team, I'll maybe make him a hybrid, but if there is a Prot hench he uses this).

12+1+1 Healing Prayers
12+1 Divine Favor
3+1 Protection Prayers

[ethereal light][dwayna's kiss][orison of healing][cure hex][dismiss condition][holy haste][unyielding aura][signet of rejuvenation]

Livia as my MM. Again, I vary he slightly based on the area, but not much or often.

12+1+3 Death Magic
8+2 Soul Reaping (yep, I'm not afraid to lower her health)
10 Healing Prayers
2+1 Blood Magic

[animate bone minions][animate shambling horror][death nova][jagged bones][blood of the master][heal area][dark bond][restore life]

Last one is either Gwen or Vekk, occassionally Sousuke instead of Vekk. Gwen is my most commonly used though, and if I want/need some interrupts other than the hench (Daemon/Zho) I may take Jin instead.

12+1+1 Illusion Magic
8+1 Fast Casting
10+1 Inspiration Magic
2 Healing Prayers

[tease][clumsiness][wandering eye][frustration][power return][power drain][optional][resurrection chant]

Her optional is typically [inspired hex], [shrinking armor], [arcane conundrum], or [phantom pain].

Carboplatin · Mar 03, 2009, 03:57 PM // 15:57

[visions of regret][empathy][backfire] mesmers combined with a [spiteful spirit][insidious parasite] necro is always fun.

-edit guru needs to update their skill desc. VoR is now anyskill and is AoE.

faraaz · Mar 03, 2009, 07:27 PM // 19:27

Para with They're on Fire & Stunning Spear, Searing Flames Ele & Fevered Dreams Mesmer running wep of shadow...its fun for questing in NM while I get my 3rd account to DoA

street peddler · Mar 03, 2009, 07:51 PM // 19:51

my heroes usually consist of, a rit healer, a minion bomber, and then anything i feel like using in the third slot, right now its a mesmer with Tease and rit support skills.

MasterSasori · Mar 03, 2009, 09:18 PM // 21:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by moriz

too bad heroes can't use arcane echo+RoJ. my awesome me/mo nuker doesn't work nearly as well as i thought it would

Heroes are SO incompetent with Arcane Echo. I've tried it on my SS, omg it was fail.

infamous16 · Mar 03, 2009, 09:49 PM // 21:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by MasterSasori

Heroes are SO incompetent with Arcane Echo. I've tried it on my SS, omg it was fail.

I had one that echoed his res, lol.